When I told Agathiyar in 2019 that I wanted to close the doors to Agathiyar Vanam Malaysia (AVM) for good, after he had me disband the team that had mushroomed and grown around AVM, he told me not as yet as he had to see several more seekers and devotees. This time around it would be those who sought to learn Yogam and know about the Self or about Gnanam rather than the earlier seekers keen to know about his worship or Sariyai and rituals or Kriyai. He said that he shall let me know when the time was right. I had the sudden urge to do so again some weeks back but he asked that I hold on. As I had submitted to him entirely all my decisions I now depended on him to nudge me or a sudden urge arise in me as an indication or signal from him to move. So was there the sudden frustration that came on a couple of days ago in me where I was lost for clarity and had to know certain answers about the body, soul, spirit as everyone I listened to or everything I read either only confused me further or beat around the bush. Furthermore speaking to another devotee I saw that there was no change in him and his stand after two years in isolation. This let me to question if others have had seen changes to their spiritual undertakings? I sent the question "What is the difference between soul and spirit, uyir and atma, aavi as in udal porul aavi?" to my circle of friends and fellow seekers hoping that someone might tell me that he or she had received insights or answers during his or her meditation during this time. Some of those who replied surprised me for only then did I realize that they had carried this yearning to know too. Many others replied with their interpretation and understanding of what they had read. But there was no personal encounter with the soul or their spirit as we had always been led to believe that the soul and spirit are only known in deep meditation. While some tried to answer or referred to other sources, many like me said they did not know but wanted to know.
- I don't know aiya. Please enlighten me,
- pls share,
- Aiyya... I tried to reply twice. Then refrained from. I don't have any answers but I will try to think...,
- Teriyele sir,
- sir, still I can't answer for this, I am trying to find answer. i cant clarify myself can you give some clarifications to me sir,
- Vanakam aiya. This is the real hard question that i cant figure out correctly. It sounds almost same to me.....,
- Not sure im correct...Correct me if im wrong,
- Anne i knw this could be wrong.. But ths is what i can actually convey when you asked anne. Please forgive me if its wrong anne,
- Pondering over udal, porul aavi. Would love to hear what you have been taught on this,
- This is based on my little understanding and understandings change as we go deeper and deeper. Hope it clarifies,
- I apologise ayya. I know nothing about this. But I really want to know and searching about this many many years. Recently my inner keeps cry for this answer everyday. What is soul and why am I here. Today you also asking ayya.
- Atma, jivan atma , paramatma......i need to check back too....sm material which i vaguely remember, research and get bavk to you....the vedic & saiva siddhanta perspective are interesting too...n can help to verify...
Acharya Gurudasan seems to have roped the horse. His reply was the closest to Agathiyar.
These words are used in different Contexts to have the same meaning, different meaning, interchangeably etc etc. I personally don't want to get confused with all the jargon.To me uyir is uyirthirukum nilai, the continuous feeling of existence, the subtle counterpart of breath... The feeling of 'I', awareness without which one will be termed jatam (ஜடம்) And Soul is that supreme universal Consciousness..... அங்கிங்கெனாதபடி எங்கும் வியாபித்து ஆனந்த ரூபமாய் ஒளிரும் விழிப்புணர்வு நிலை.... உயிரின் மூலம்..... That which we call by different names as God, Shiva, Allah, Heavenly father, Agasthiar, Babaji, Muruga, by Whatever name we can give... That oneness, is soul!
Yes, Agathiyar came to answer and clear the air. He wrote a memo! Agathiyar is a great teacher, as Mahin mentioned he had me come up with the question and gave us the answer to be shared with others. But a couple of learned seekers had their own interpretation of Agathiyar's answer. Let them be. But the rest of us were thrilled to the core when Agathiyar answered our query through his memo. Mahin is blessed indeed to take down the notes as Agathiyar revealed the answers through him. He messaged me later, "After reading this post, (the earlier post where I went ahead and posted what I understood of Udal, uyir and Atma) something force me to go and meditate with book & pen Anna. I never close my eyes this time but like someone whispering to me on Udal Porul Aavi fast n my writing becomes a scribble. I’ll rewrite it and send Anna. At that moment my body shivering bcs of the vibration wasn’t stop until I share with Anna."
உனது உடலைப் பிரதானமாகக் கொண்டு இயங்குவது சுவாசம், அதுவே உயிர். உயிர் என்பது செயல் அற்று இருக்கக்கூடிய உறுப்பைச் செயல் பெறச் செய்வது. பிறக்கும் சிசு கருவுற மூலமாக இருப்பது பிராணவாயு. பிராணவாயு ஆணின் அணுக்களிலும் பெண்ணின் அணுக்களிலும் ஊடுருவி ஒன்றெனக் கலந்து பிரதான பொருள் வடிவம் அடையும் தன்மை உண்டானால் அங்கு உயிர் சக்தி உருவேற்ற படுகிறது.உடல் என்பது ஐந்து உலோகங்களின் நுண்ணுயிர்களின் அளவுகளைத் தாங்கிக் கொண்டு பிண்டம் ஒன்றினை உருவ வடிவமாய் கர்ப்பகிரகத்தில் நிலை பெறுகிறது. பஞ்சபூதம் ஆகிய நீர், நிலம், ஆகாயம், காற்று, நெருப்பு அனைத்தும் தாய் தந்தையின் உடலிலிருந்தே எடுக்கப்பட்டு சிசுவின் உடலைப் பிறப்பிக்கின்றது. இவைகளின் அளவுகள் குறையும் தருவாயில் சிசு தன் உடலின் பாகங்களில் கோளாறு ஏற்படுகிறது.நிலத்தின் அளவு - 1/3நீரின் அளவு – 4/3நெருப்பின் அளவு – 5/6காற்றின் அளவு – 8/2ஆகாயத்தின் அளவு – 1/8இவ்வாறு அதற்கென்று அளவுகள் பிரம்மதேவரால் கணக்கிட்டு உடலை உருவாக்கப்படுகிறது.ஆன்மா உடலையும் உயிரையும் தனது கட்டுப்பாட்டுக்குள் வைத்துக் கொள்ளும் ஒரு சூச்சமம். இந்தச் சூச்சமத்தை பிறந்த குழந்தைகள் 1 முதல் 5 வராகை வரையிலும் உடன் இருந்து மறையும். மறைத்தலின் காரணம் இன்னதென்று இப்போது உனக்குச் சொல்ல இயலாது. ஆனபோதிலும் ஆன்மா ஒருவரின் செயலைப் பொறுத்தே மீண்டும் அவனை வந்து சேரும். ஆன்மா உன்னோடு இருந்து உன்னை ஒரு பாதைக்கு இழுத்து செல்லும் அப்போது நீ அதனை உணர்ந்தாள், உன்னில் அதிர்வாய் தோன்றி மறையும். அந்த அதிர்வினை நீ உனக்குள் நீடிக்கப் பழகினால் உன்னால் ஆன்மா என்னும் உனது அதிர்வுகளில் ஊடுருவி என்னுள் (இறை / அகத்தியன்) வந்து சேர ஒரு வழி.ஆன்மா உனது கர்ம வினை தாங்கி வருவது அல்ல, ஆனால் ஆன்மாவே உனது கர்ம வினையைச் சரிசெய்வதற்கு உதவி புரியும். கர்மவை சரி செய்த பின், ஆன்மாவின் தேடல் அதிகமாகி மனிதனின் அன்றாட தேடல் தீர்ந்து போகும். அவன் தேடல் முழுதாய் என்னையே தேடி வர முயற்சி செய்யும்.இது இன்றைக்கு கொடுத்த பாடம் உனக்கு, மற்றவை உனக்கு மற்றொரு நாள் நான் வழங்குவேன்.
The translation to the best of my ability follows.
The breath primarily drives our body. Thus, it is Uyir. Uyir is that which moves limbs that are motionless.
Pranavayu is the reason for the embryo to conceive. This pranavayu that travels in the Anukkal within both the male and female, upon merging and when all configuration is in place and conducive to take a primary material form the Uyir Sakthi is given.
Udal that is a combination of the Nun Uyir in certain proportions, present in the five materials takes on the form of a Pindam in the womb.
The Pancha Butham namely water, earth, sky, air, fire are derived from both the parent's body to produce the body of the developing baby.
When the proportions differ, there appear defects in the baby.
Earth 1/3
Water 4/3
Fire 5/6
Air 8/2
Sky 1/8
Hence, these proportions are determined by Lord Brahma as the body takes form.
The Atma keeps both the Udal and Uyir under its control in a secretive, subtle manner. This subtlety stays from 1 to 5 Varagai with the child before it's veiled. I cannot tell you the reason for it to be veiled now.
Nevertheless, the Atma will return unto him depending on his actions.
When the Atma in you pulls you to a path and if you realize it, it appears as an Athirvu or vibration and disappears. If you practice extending this vibration in you, you shall merge in this vibration that is the Atma and arrive at Erai/ Agathiyan.
The Atma does not carry our karma, but the Atma shall help rectify our karma. When the karma is rectified, the Atma's seeking shall be hastened to the extent man's daily seeking shall exhaust. His entire seeking shall shift towards efforts on reaching me (Agathiyan)
This is today's lesson for you. I shall reveal further another day.
Just as I stood baffled and in disbelief when Tavayogi the morning after I arrived at Kallar Ashram for the first time told me that Agathiyar had come to him the night before and had asked what he was going to give me, I sat stupefied when Agathiyar told me several things in the Nadi over the years. I refused to believe because I knew that did not deserve them. Neither did I see anything extraordinary take place in me. The greatest revelation came on when he addressed us through his memo about the nature of the Udal, Uyir, and Atma. Going by what Agathiyar revealed above, it dawned on me that he had connected the Atma with him each time he came before me at the numerous temples and places he had me visit in the past. The Atma had come before me each time I knocked on the door of a temple. I was in joy and bliss realizing that he had made it pretty simple for us to reach out to the Atma rather than have us sit in deep meditation and come up close with and face to face with it or have us go on an astral journey to discover it. I remember how Tavayogi expressed his surprise that Agathiyar had come to us pretty easy when he too had to travel far and wide seeking him. We are blessed indeed and are grateful to Agathiyar. Supramania Swami and Tavayogi I believe have a role to play too, with Supramania Swami passing me the merits of his 40-year tavam and Siddhi and Tavayogi who silently performed Siddhis with us.
Sending me off on a transfer, removing me from past reminders of all that I had seen and learned, read, and picked up from books about religion during the bachelor days, he had me drop them all. I stood void and empty for 14 years until he came to fill me again in 2001 this time with the teachings of the Siddhas. From a general knowledge in religion, he brought me to major on the Siddha path. The search for Siddhas stopped the moment Tavayogi came into my life in 2005. He showed me officially to Agathiyar. My home took on and became a hive of activity with puja going on regularly. We were occupied with our aggressively driven charity programs too. We came to be known as Agathiyar Vanam Malaysia (AVM). Surprisingly after another 14 years of hectic activity and programs Agathiyar brought everything to a standstill in 2019 and asked us to go within. Giving us a simple technique of observing the breath, try as much as I did, I never saw results or so I thought. I told Mahin my comrade in the battle against Mara, and Suren, that the past two years were a waste of time. But to my surprise, Agathiyar told me "No, it was not". I was asking myself how was the two years not a waste when Mahin opened my eyes telling me that I had changed a lot in the sense that I had dropped so many things in this period. I realized that it was true. Nay, I was made to drop much even before that. Agathiyar made me do it. Tavayogi had me fo it. They had lessons for me to learn from every single episode too.
After my Nadi reading, I took the initiative to work on my past karma. Nay, it wasn't even me says Agathiyar now. After reading his recent revelation and recalling his words, Agathiyar came as and is the vibration, the Atma, Agathiyan and Erai. We understand now that Agathiyar who is "அகத்துள் உறையும் ஈசன்" is the Atma too. The vibration/Atma/Agathiyan/Erai came back to redeem me when the time was right.
Agathiyar says, "The Atma keeps both the Udal and Uyir under its control in a secretive, subtle manner. This subtlety stays from 1 to 5 Varagai with the child before it's veiled. ... Nevertheless, the Atma will return unto him depending on his actions."
ஆன்மா உடலையும் உயிரையும் தனது கட்டுப்பாட்டுக்குள் வைத்துக் கொள்ளும் ஒரு சூச்சமம். இந்தச் சூச்சமத்தை பிறந்த குழந்தைகள் 1 முதல் 5 வராகை வரையிலும் உடன் இருந்து மறையும். ... ஆனபோதிலும் ஆன்ம ஒருவரின் செயலைப் பொறுத்தே மீண்டும் அவனை வந்து சேரும்.
As Agathiyar said, "The Atma shall help rectify our karma. When the karma is rectified, the Atma's seeking shall be hastened to the extent man's daily seeking shall exhaust. His entire seeking shall shift towards efforts on reaching me (Agathiyan)", this paradigm shift took place in us.
ஆன்மாவே உனது கர்ம வினையைச் சரிசெய்வதற்கு உதவி புரியும். கர்மவை சரி செய்த பின், ஆன்மாவின் தேடல் அதிகமாகி மனிதனின் அன்றாட தேடல் தீர்ந்து போகும். அவன் தேடல் முழுதாய் என்னையே தேடி வர முயற்சி செய்யும்.
When the Atma stays with you then pulling you to a path ... it is a way to arrive at Erai/ Agathiyan.
ஆன்மா உன்னோடு இருந்து உன்னை ஒரு பாதைக்கு இழுத்து செல்லும் .... என்னுள் (இறை / அகத்தியன்) வந்து சேர ஒரு வழி.
Agathiyar took stock of my karma and ruled it out in my favor, forgiving me telling me that he had wanted me to have those experiences too, thus removing my guilt. Doing this he unloaded the baggage of load that I carried making my journey much easier to transcend. Then he had me drop my hold on things right from the beginning even before the thought arose. When Tavayogi told me that I did not need a rudraksha after he had given the green light to another devotee to wear it on him, Agathiyar was teaching me non-dependence on everything external. When Tavayogi spotted the nine gems-studded ring on my finger again he told me that we do not need it. I then voluntarily removed the Rasanani I was wearing. I stood "naked" before them without any accessories. By bringing me to the numerous existing establishments in his name, Agathiyar had me drop the desire to start one on my own if at all I had carried any then. By witnessing the difficulty in marketing their books he taught me to stay away from publishing the traditional way. I opted to publish online and made it available as free downloads. In having me mingle with fellow seekers he had me read their minds and brought me to think otherwise. As I could not conform to any mold, rules, conduct, or regime dished out by others, I guess this is the reason I traveled solo on my journey without attaching to any movement, just following Supramania Swami, Tavayogi, and Agathiyar's words and directives.
When Mahin made me realize that I had dropped everything in the past two years only then did I realized that it was not about adding on more and more but all about dropping all that we had. As we were so preoccupied with so much activity taking place around AVM since having met Tavayogi in Malaysia in 2005, we had kept on adding events. So when during the two-year isolation as directed by Agathiyar and partly because of the restrictions in movement that came with the current pandemic we had nothing on our hands except to sit and try to follow his guideline and trying to meditate. As I saw no results I took it has wasted time. I had falsely equated time with activity and seeing results. Agathiyar came to tear down the veil that covered me. There were many other veils he tore down too. In giving me pain and joy, Agathiyar taught me to switch pain to bliss. When I had pain in my back he tells me that that should be pleasurable. When I was twitching in pain as a result of unexpected surges of energy he told me that was bliss. He taught me to switch pleasure, even during sexual union to bliss too. He was bringing me to accept all as one. When he had me build an empire only to have me tear it down later he was teaching non-attachment. When he sensed that there was a following and an attachment to AVM he pulled the shutters and closed it down. Whenever a thought or desire spiked within he brought it down the very next moment, extinguishing it. When I told Tavayogi that I wanted to see Agathiyar and Ramalinga Adigal he told me that that was possible but went on to ask me if that is what I wanted? I knew that moment that this is not what one should desire. I do not seek the Siddhis that many pine for. When Agathiyar wanted to gift me the Nadi for my own use and others I turned it down. I did not want to have the public queue at my home to have a reading. He then dropped the Nadi and spoke to us directly through his devotees. Our fear of people making their way over, mistaking my home as a place to get Arul Vakku as is commonplace now, dropped when we knew these sermons that Agathiyar gave us were on Yogam and Gnanam. Very few are keen on it. When Agathiyar came to heal others using my home as his port of operation we were not happy too. He stopped it. When the Agathiyar Vanam Malaysia (AVM) family began to get attached to the venue, we saw signs of another center forming. We did not like that too. We did not want to emulate others. We wanted each home of these devotees to become Agathiyar Vanam. I never sought mukthi or salvation that many asked for either. I guess this is the reason Lord Murugan told us that we shall do it differently. I do not know what to ask of him anymore. But when cornered to ask for a wish, I told him that I would want to take more births and serve him just as I am doing now. He even killed this asking of mine to serve him in all the births. He whispered to me asking me to look around and asked if I wanted to go through all these again.
Tavayogi used to tell me often after every experience "இன்னும் என்னென்ன எல்லாம் செய்ய போறாரோ?" Rather than shudder and fear Agathiyar's next course of action, Tavayogi took it in his stride and with good faith. I am seeing that happen too.
In asking to shut myself up completely Agathiyar who wants me to hold back tells me that as it is, he is keeping me in solitude. Reflecting on what he said, I have to agree that I cannot keep company with others as there is no common topic that we share and can talk about. All I can only talk about is Agathiyar. My world is Agathiyar. My nephew's child once tricked me to have me talk to her using this weakness. I do not know how she gathered that I must love Agathiyar so much. When she was being naughty and noisy I told her I would not speak to her and turned to look away. She came to me and held my cheeks forcing me to look at her. Finding every means fail, she suddenly blurted out that Agathiyar was in her home and that she could show me. When she said the magic word "Agathiyar" I turned to her asking "Where?" She led me by the hand and showed me Harry Porter's room under the stairs! She open the door. As I peeked inside it was only a store. She started to laugh aloud. I was conned into believing that Agathiyar was there by this small kid. Recently noticing that I kept away from people and things, my 4-year-old granddaughter asked me why I kept to myself. How do you explain to a child? But I did my best. After you drop everything, what is there to look forward to?
I have come to realize that we have come to be schooled here. We left the home of our father in a faraway distant place and time and having traveled far and wide, and long, this weary traveler has come to be sent to earth again to learn more on values in life, learn to appreciate, to show gratefulness, to share and live together, and to help one another, as I suppose the earlier learning was incomplete. Just as we have to attend the same class year in and year out because we did not qualify to progress or move on, I guess I needed to come back. If we can overcome time and space we are free birds. Freedom from the clutches of time and space ends it all. If we can fall into the scheme of life perfectly then we shall fit into the grand puzzle quite easily. Till the last piece of the puzzle fits into the scheme of his divine play we shall keep coming back. Even if we had completed our score we have to come back to help another close to us close their score. So I stand void and empty now. There is nothing to achieve further. Nothing to chase after. Nothing to leave behind. It is mere existence. Just watching time go by. Today I stand stark naked before him. I know I cannot hide anything from him. He knows my past, present, and future. Where am I to hide? Where am I to go? Except back into his arms.